The main rule. The story is laden with horror and mystery elements, giving it a similar vibe to Lord of the Mysteries. Read your favorite Wuxia, Light or Korean Novels for free. Vol. #lotm #lordofthemysteries #orv #omniscientreadersviewpoint #tbate #lightnovel #anime #rezero #mushokutensei. Of course you can just Google and find many plagiarized sites. You've subscribed to Lord of the Mysteries! We will preorder your items within 24 hours of when they become available. Embers is way slower than LotM at the beginning and people or most readers nowadays like it when the stories progress fast or in short the one where there's always an action and improvement that you can see while reading in the span of 10 - 20 chapters. After getting rid of Amon, Klein went to sleep to recuperate and attempt to fight the influence of the Lord of the Mysteries. ago. A Divine kingdom shouldnt be treated so lightly by a mortal. Please read the rules before posting. The chills i felt, man. Waking up to be faced with a string of mysteries, Zhou Mingrui finds himself reincarnated as Klein Moretti in an alternate Victorian era world where he sees a world filled with machinery, cannons, dreadnoughts, airships,. 4. After Being Kidnapped by the Crown Prince Psychological. ago. This was a legend of the “Fool”. What sequence do you guys think Melissa is and why? #lotm. After a nasty breakup with her now ex-boyfriend Hangyeol, figure skater Kang Saena's not looking in. In terms of technique, shading, ect;. Read novels on royal road . It’s my first novel and I’m questioning if I’m reading correctly. Read LOTM and more premium Drama Comics now on Tapas! Please note that Tapas no longer supports Internet Explorer. The cultivation is the only thing that made me want to read more. Original pathway:Mystery paradox path, already ended, pretty good one, follows the logic of the lotm universe, and the MC already starts with the uniqueness, so it pretty much explains why he is able to survive in the. ago Pirate websites/links/files will be deleted, and repeat offenders banned. 6502. The novel starts slow but when it picks up the pace, it's simply awesome. Today I was randomly thinking of the Abyss, because it wasn't yet much explained (at least in the part I read). Most of the time, different novel formats attract different readers and different expectations from them. Not a bad ending, it was actually good, but it did feel a bit rushed, if u alr read Lotm and Toma then you’ll realize that during the end of the novels Cuttles works sometimes felt rushed and so did this. Can we please change the image to Amon. e a logical explanation can't be formed for the given actionThe gods wanted someone to become LotM for the sake of resisting the outer gods in the apocalypse. Not much is yet known about this Outer Deity. Written by the Author Cuttlefish That Loves Diving . However, they're really popular and a good friend of mine loves them. My feeling reading MoL was that the author had a great understanding of significant detail, each sentence has a purpose. But somethings were blatantly wrong (Like a character having. A year has past and this unfinished work has lengthened into a full fleded story. Take note that only the first three portraits appear pretty early on in the story, while the rest appear later, and the appearance of some portraits in this collection may be considered a spoiler as well. I still can’t believe that I read 1432 chapters, my longest translated novel to date. The ritual says: Be separated from reality for at least three. Whereas the first chapter of LotM reads like a list of things in a room with awkward thoughts jammed in between listed items. conwall33 • 3 yr. Well , for a starter LOTM is finished , so it makes more sense to read it first so you can let Shadow Slave keep on piling more content. Jumb- • 2 yr. NOVEL NEXT Read light novel, web novel, korean novel and chinese novel online for free. Talisman Emperor. If a Bizarro Sorcerer wanted to advance to Scholar of Yore, but did not have the time because of the apocalypse (picture a seer beyonder starting as a beyonder at the same time of the Tarot Club, but not being a human brought from an ancient era like Klein). 679K subscribers in the dontdeadopeninside community. we know things are happening. The "Hero" of the CN novel are normally cruel, nationalist and sociopathic, and in a cultivation novel, they will commit so many crimes and destruction that you just wouldn't like to be in they way. Also, the fact that almost everyone (me included) suspected Lovia as a traitor just hurts. Written by the Author Cuttlefish That Loves Diving. Mafia And Mrs. shady8x • 3 yr. River of Eternal Darkness), it seems unlikely that anyone is in control of them either like Klein or ASG. This was a legend of the “fool”. Potions, divination, curses, hanged-man, and sealed artifacts…. 468 chapters have been translated and translations of other chapters are in progress. I have only only read Lotm once so if I made a mistake please Excuse me (and my poor English). Just Google read lord of the mysteries and you. Light Novel World is a very special platform where you can read the translated versions of world famous Japanese, Chinese and Korean light novels in English. spoiler. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games. I mean there’s a lot of sites you can find just by googling hardcore leveling warrior free comic that’s usually what I do mangakakalot and manwhatop are the first sites that I see free and have all the chapters try those. LoTM kept me good company after RI but I struggled to finish it in a stretch. not only the start, the plot made sense at the very late parts of the first volume. All new posts will require manual approval from the mod team. Question Dispel my misconceptions please, info on LotM. Decided to re-read some other novels and I was right. You should probably read the modern days, it gives you a basic knowledge of how the fight between CW and klein is going on. Still, Transcendent Dawn is not that bad and even if the translation stopped at chapter 61 on webnovel, the. The development team is newly established, but the employees are all experienced. This goes to show the talent of the author. ago. Reverend Insanity isn't really a xianxia in the sense that its cultivation system is a bit different from other novels. He stated that the next book he writes will be about people on the other continent and this one is just something hes writing per contract. In random order. 1. We all have our own opinions and insights. The most boring volume, but you have to read it at least twice, as it has linkage to all other volumes, plot wise. We welcome you to try subscribing to our free weekly blog or. This is actually why I'm putting off reading the last few releases in both; I will either have to do a. ago. The CW, though, can literally do everything at the same time by himself. ago. A Variety of Lotm Cosplay. The lights shone brightly, yet the secrets of the world were never far away. The LotM had the best and most unique cultivation system I've ever read. _SnesGuy • 2 yr. In LoTM, an Environment tier dictates the number of workers (Koda, Kodamara, Farmer Mara, and Hunter Mara) that you can allocate to an Otherdeed. Lord of The Mysteries (Lotm 1) Circle of Inevitability (Lotm 2) Edit :- chapter 415. 0M Views Author: Cuttlefish That. Take note that only the first three portraits appear pretty early on in the story, while the rest appear later, and the appearance of some portraits in this collection may be considered a spoiler as well. true. Dropped in favor of another novel. people might not like it because it's kinda slow like LoTM, and the mc is evil. Pros : Unique levelling system, decent writing, Balances MC and charactersAdd 4 cups of beef broth, and stir until the flour is incorporated and starts to thicken. First of all, let me say that this novel is a unique creation in the webnovel universe and everyone should try to read it once just for the sake of exploring something new. It happened in the first epoch. 27 percent vs. ago. LOTM is pretty heavy and complex for a first novel. Ah right, Dwayne should really go to the bathroom less often. ago. A Short Guide to all Volumes. • 7 mo. I woke up from the realm of mysteries and opened my eyes to the world. The people who were off-put. I guess this. I've just finished reading LOTM's 8 volumes and I am extremely satisfied but also feeling astray. Maybe try reading lotm fanfics or start writing one. Doors' ravings which made it hard to advance to a demi-god but once you advance you would be able to withstand the ravings, my question is why did Abraham family act before consuming the potions (similar to George Augustus the. It was yesterday when I was browsing my bookmarked novels I suddenly remember the novel and had the urge to finish it but obviously I had forgot Tbh LOTM is a rare exception with a great TL. and Monday has 100% gone by without the amount of DINNER scenes and new days to do new things. . There are spoilers, so don’t look outside of the pictures. This is a community to discuss all things related to Lord of Mysteries Series! Novels, Manhua…Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games. Reply. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games. ago. So, having said that, I recommend thee Omniscient's Reader Viewpoint for first lecture, and afterwards Lord of the Mysteries. I completed reading it and though it is decent, I would not suggest reading this since there are much better novels to explore. Webnovel has a couple of trashy translations. Or check it out in the app stores Home; PopularKlein would probably neg-dif goku too. 2. The world built by cuttlefish is extremely detailed and full of potential and the characters are absolutely briliant. It'll probably be repeated though or atleast most of it sense were getting a new protagonist in 2. I stopped reading after he left the village, but your saying later on Gu don't really matter? Whoever uses more Gu against the opponent wins? Can you elaborate because if so I'm glad I stopped reading. Evil God's Descent in Tingen. 8. p0Liii27 • 1 min. And I plan on being extremely careful reading any replies on this thread as I have done a good job going into this story completely blind, and I’d very much like to finish it that way. drakilian • 3 yr. At the end of April 2020, the novel. Read more > ⍀⏃⊬⋔ ⏃⍀⌇. I highly suspect that if LoTM were a traditional book series, the amount of people complaining about the slow start would be cut by 80% atleast. Happy birthday to the regressor, fighter, lover, human, Yoo Joonghyuk. Summary. Memeological. It's not really a luck enhancement ritual. Reading and waiting for sure torturous in many different levels 😵 Reply VincentATd1. When new books are released, we'll charge your default payment method for the lowest price available during the pre-order period. The lack of knowledge and all the scheming and planning using that incomplete information makes it good. The lack of knowledge and all the scheming and planning using that incomplete information makes it good. There was a big drama thing 5 years back when this sub used to be part of r/LightNovels. 2, RPG type. Additional comment actions. ZhouMingrui. Last-Alternative2921. Finished reading LoTM about two weeks ago, and I'm currently feeling extremely, extremely, extremely empty. _Iroha • 3 yr. Written by the Author MidGard. LOTM also feels boring and tedious before Klein became a faceless, him getting his ass saved by evernight godess without any solid reasoning, Amon getting defeated just because the MC was a self sacrificing freak, Klein getting half the mystical items just because of pure coincidences and these items becoming highly useful in the next fight. Note: This is a moderated subreddit. no form of hate speech or JKR apology is tolerated Members Online. i just wonder when will this kind of slice of life chaps end. The latest chapter of the light novel Lord of the Mysteries just got updated to Lightnovels. After all, this company has existed since before I was employed at my present company. Written by the Author Cuttlefish That Loves Diving. LOTM's strength is its world building and mysteries above all else. LOTM does have some brilliant parts but not enough to justify 2000 chapters/a literal month of constant reading to finish. Please read all the sub rules before posting/commenting before posting. Please read the rules before posting. Those whom were not loyal to Ara Astaroth or Ragnarok Iblis began to treat Raym Ars. For most LoTM fans, I guess it would be quite an enjoyable read. Fun fact: The author received an award from the Chinese government for writing LOTM and Martial Arts Master. Official Klein on October 16, 2020. Best. His pace is atrociously slow - 120 chapters in five months - but it’s fun watching him experience the story. . I need someone to please give me an overview of the importance of facts, pathways and character before going into book 2. Started to somewhat enjoy it by then, and trotted my way to the mid-100s. ago. . I know Klein is supposed to be the mc, but I think all of us can agree that Amon is more bad-assLoTM is really that type of fiction with multiple reading level, a single read is just not enough to catch all the complexity of this masterpiece. Also, ‘Steal’ can apparently do anything, be it teleporting, changing destiny, delete memories and thoughts, it’s way too OP. Read MTL Novel Translation for Lord of Mysteries 2: Circle of Inevitability / 宿命之环 RAW in English. 19 today ! #lumianlee #lotm #kleinmoretti #circleofinevitability #lordofmysteries #lordofthemysteries #fyp #fyp. Enjoy ur reading! Omniscient readers viewpoint - Done - again the characters are so well put together and interesting, it kept me guessing the entire time. Length - LOTM is long. But now I'm reading lotm, I don't want to reach the latest chapter so I dropped it at 100ish chapters. The official English translation of the Manhua adaptation was officially released on Webnovel in February. That is just how dangerous the other pathways are. Note: This is a moderated subreddit. Indeed, I have read it there. been a year since i started reading lotm this is so crazy to me #lordofthemysteries #lordofthemysteriesmemes #kleinmoretti #lotm. A Variety of Lotm Cosplay. It really is uncommon to find novels That will sway you emotionally. It's really good until that point in the story. It's nicely written but wasn't my cup of tea. The game was first revealed today, so I'm here to promote it. Posted by 4 hours ago. Author's POV - Ongoing - if you have every read "The novel's extra" its like this but the mc is more involved with the plot. Debangan_Daemon • Moderator • 7 mo. Lonahora • 3 yr. Even the LOTM novel is still underrated, i mean not on the novel readers, but to non novel readers. 1585. Read the free chapters on web novel and then decide if it’s good enough to keep paying to read. "5. Full - 1479 chapters. A community for people who cannot read but join together to read the same 5 translated webnovels over and over again in an attempt to decode the mysteries of written language. Pathway Symbols. Furthermore, these novels do not need. The name of this Outer Deity is also the name of the second book. (And if I read one more cooking scene I’m throwing my phone threw a wall. It can be slow at times, but generally it's that exact build up which makes the payoffs worth it. There is no reason to explain that the World is himself aswell, because while he is himself, he is very much other being aswell. LOTM 2 Spoiler Spoilers obviously. u/Calm_Capital8372. But for lotm Webnovel definitely has the best reading Experience. Sorry for my english btw🤧Haven't read lotm but how their fans only talk about RI instead Where are you seeing that? Not on r/LordofTheMysteries? I've never seen either r/ReverendInsanity or r/LordofTheMysteries obsess about the other novel except to recommend the other to people looking for equally well-regarded novels. It's too confusing. The biggest thing I'm worried about regarding the sequels to. Add a Comment. · 6m. Read Light Novel & Web Novel Translations Online For FREE!Lotm's fans treat his work as if it weren the divine comedy or the picture of dorian gray or some work worthy of being universally remembered, I swear that if I put myself to the test and read his work I would easily find about 50 failures or at least asspullsThey are great novels but I don’t see how they tick the same boxes and since i read lotm to scratch my itch from RI I’m confused. Lord of Mysteries 2: Circle of Inevitability novel is a popular light novel covering Fantasy genres. Best. Read Supremacy Games novel online for free. If you still haven't finished reading LoTM, I can understand the reason for your ignorance, but if you're done reading the whole LoTM (including the raws, of course), it's not a good sign for you to have such little understanding of Amon, the one you claim to be your top 3 character. Crimson. The official source will be always the best place to read it but I understand that some people don't like reading there, so you can always try downloading the epub or pdf version you. Reading the wiki and fanfics with unique protagonists solidifies that. The Amber Sword (4/5) Omniscient Readers Viewpoint (5/5) The Authors POV (4/5) The Primal Hunter (5/5) World's Apocalypse Online (4/5) Two other novels that are also very similar to Shadow Slave, but I'm not a fan of the authors works. *** The first time I read orv I already felt a strange connection, some mutual understanding, towards the character called 'Yoo Joonghyuk'. 1. comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment 092973738361682 • Additional comment actions. I got my friend to read LOTM. 3. Lord of the Mysteries book 2 would be released in March 4, 2023, 10 months from now…. I heard there will be LOTM 2 but new MC in hunter pathway?. Reviews from 519 readers. Many jerk themselves off and believe themselves to be super intellectuals or cold rational masterminds by vicariously living through their series MCs, so naturally their book has to be superior than all others, hence the hate. 28 12 12 comments Best Freak5_5 Outer Mod • 1 yr. I liked the concept of Heroic Ages MC though. I took a bit of a right turn away from the argument there. The first 100 chapters or the first arc is for the world building and can be a slog for some people. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games. Written by the Author Cuttlefish That Loves Diving . Being in another Body, doing a weird ritual and suddenly having a temple. this made me actually wanna read lotm #lotm #lordofthemysteries #novel #webnovel #lightnovel #amon #aucuses #kleinmoretti #anime #manhua #donghua #isekai #trunsoest #dontletthisflop. With the rising tide of steam power and machinery, who can come close to being a Beyonder? Shrouded in the fog of history and darkness, who or what is the lurking evil that murmurs into our ears? Waking up to be faced with a string of mysteries, Zhou Mingrui finds himself reincarnated as Klein Moretti…. Read Lord of the Mysteries novel online free at ReadNovelFull in Mobile, Tablet, iOS, Android, PC, Desktop. Might read LotM but might not. Dude, I have the exact same scenario, except the fact that they didnt even try to read LoTM Reply AHF_FHA. Full - 3023 chapters. Potions, divination, curses, hanged-man, and sealed artifacts…. r/LordofTheMysteries • my attempt at “LoTM spoilers with no context”, show me yours. the main character focuses on benefits. Tbh for me LOTM was and will always be peak sooo. I had long swallowed ‘Him’ in secret. I have searched alot for the best place to read LotM but i didn't find one, and i mean by best place not for translation or something, i meant a pdf that have some pictures like what ORV fans did with BlackBox's Art, the Unofficial Art for the novel (LotM) is good and it's possible to make a pdf with it but they are too randoms, i barely find 1 picture that admit to an. The Circle of Inevitability's pathway represents a predetermined fate and represents a decisive state of. 151. ago. LM. This should be in the sub description. Can't Escape - Yawdel. Status: c216. So yes it is similar to LotM but i feel like so many other aspects are different and to say, "very similar" is unfair to DSE. also while I was writing the comment I forgot about the "similar to ri" thing op said. 9. At the end of the day, this would be categorized as a "Dream conflict" on the mental/spiritual layer . 11 comments. I'm sorry you'll have to put up with some mediocrity until you get to the modern pages. [BEING RE-WRITTEN RN] Book one in the D'Angelo Series (Also the first maybe three chaps might be c. Webnovel has a couple of trashy translations. I not only need to uphold my responsility towards readers who have read Lord of Mysteries (Book 1), but also towards readers who have never read LOTM Book 1 in the past. #Chapter 1. It does not have that extensive of a history behind the events taking place unlike LotM iirc(not really a 2000 years ago, so and so was betrayed type of novel) I really liked it, read it before LotM and would still rate it quite highly. A community for people who cannot read but join together to read the same 5 translated webnovels over and over again in an attempt to decode the mysteries of written language. Where to read lotm on? I've seen lots of good things about it, but I'm don't know which site to read it on . To refresh my memory and relive that excitement of reading it again. Ngl, the fanart is much better than the original art. ago •. It will take you at least a month if you read LOTM at breackneck speed , likely 3 if you read other novels alongside it, so you will have several dozen new chapter of SL by the time you are done. NovelFulll Read Books Online Free - NovelFulll Free Novels Online Show menu If you still haven't finished reading LoTM, I can understand the reason for your ignorance, but if you're done reading the whole LoTM (including the raws, of course), it's not a good sign for you to have such little understanding of Amon, the one you claim to be your top 3 character. When Klein does the prayer he does not get a response but instead enters what seems to be the god's divine kingdom so Klein suspects he is already dead. World building seems solid, giving the feeling of a lived in world. I've been reading LOTM fanfiction for a while now, mostly with google translate on lofter. The manhua is not given enough attention for manhwa/manhua readers, and if you try to recommend them to read the novel, they tend to refuse it cuz it is not really their thing. The issue with why Klein Neg-difs art is that at high levels in the LOTM verse, a lot of problems are mental and conceptual. You should read some lighter novels then come back to read LOTM. The Light continues to shine but mystery has never gone far. 14 comments. Here are my recs. 5. From the setting to the characters, they bare many resemblances (which was mentioned in another review and was denied by another reviewer. Circle of Inevitability is the sequel to Lord of The Mysteries, with improved pacing, excellent world-building, and suspenseful moments. Its short thouThe Circle of Inevitability is an Above the Sequence Outer Deity from the Cosmos, possessing the authority of the Dancer Pathway. Happy Face - Jagwar Twin. Others who don’t really enjoy the fakeness of it all, that selflessness as a trait is killed off without a society to save it see a real truth. I don't include nor have I ever read against heaven since it was dropped by the author. Legend of the Maestro sounds, based on description alone, a lot like Heroic Age (the Japanese anime). You can find hundreds of english translated light novel, web novel, korean novel and chinese novel which are daily updated! Read novels online, read light novel online, read online free, free light novel online. For artists, writers, gamemasters, musicians, programmers, philosophers and scientists alike! The creation of new worlds and new universes has long been a key element of speculative fiction, from the fantasy works of Tolkien and Le Guin, to the science-fiction universes of Delany and Asimov, to the tabletop realm of Gygax and Barker, and beyond. The main rule. Although I am planning on reading it again tonight. Pallez, I forgot to tell you that in the later years of the Fourth Epoch, I pretended to be the ancestor of the Jacob family. Using the scanlators' translations save time/work/money, and diverts the audience to the official release. And I think the Abyss has to be Australia, right?Yeah I seriously can’t keep track of what powers were used in the last few fights in LOTM. Thank you for your time. Personally never played DND or pathfinder before but I think that you should make a rule that multiclassing is not allowed (for obvious reasons) and come up with an excuse if they haven't read LotM. Light Novel Pub FAN is a very special platform where you can read the translated versions of world famous Japanese, Chinese and Korean light novels in English. Joined: Jan 30, 2021 Messages: 145 Likes Received: 123How to start LOTM Again. smartpunch Susie Best Girl • 14 min. Lord of the mysteries represents all that comes after the beginning but before the end, change history time and space. Lotm is a classic. The manhua was basically just a collection of random plot beats and images compared to the. Thread by: Okuri Ookami , May 10, 2017 , 9 replies, in forum: Novel Discussion. I thought I'd read a little of it to scratch my gaslamp fantasy itch while the book I ordered from Amazon is being shipped here. That's less money for the team, the writer, the artist, and Webtoon. I'm not even done yet and I'd say lotm is definitely worth reading first. and the pun of not having a childhood because of not knowing about it, which in turn means not having a childhood because of not reading LoTM😂. ago. 44 votes, 19 comments. Too many new characters with multiple names. More posts you may like. The lack of fillers and an MC with more than 2 brain cells actually makes this novel fun to read. I'll be locking this now since OP seems to have. Fool's. . The World is the Fool's angel of Rendemption, his right hand and representative. In the year 1368, at the end of July, deep crimson shall descend from the heavens. It was 2-3 months ago I was around 640-650th chapter but due to tight schedule and exams , I stopped reading and forget about the novel. Bring to a boil and then reduce to a simmer for 5-7 minutes. His life is turned upside down when his son came into his life. [1] [2] [3] Various notable grime MCs have participated in Lord of the. 7 M English words, it is comparable with the whole Malazan series (word count 3. Vote. Klein in different identities. All new posts will require manual approval from the mod team. Not all of them are fanart, since this novel does have quite a few official illustrations, but none of them are inside the webnovel. PS- Lord of the Mysteries and Throne of the Magical Arcana are my top two novels, so I inevitably turn to Cuttlefish when I want good ones. March 10, 2021. Chap 1205: “Ah, right. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games. Potions, divination, curses, hanged-man, and sealed artifacts…. Under the comparison of the professional research, I can find what perspectives and details I missed. Large Review of LOTM after finishing: (+Recommendations for After). 11. He just asked if Melissa and Leonard ever. Second try, months later: Plodded through the first 30ish chaps, reading much slower. Please read the rules before posting. Leodero. LoTM book 2 i wont drop since its a sequel of LoTM , while shadow slave is good ( wherever there isnt Nephis ) , some parts you really have to bear with. Lord of the Mysteries (Web Novel) novel is a popular light novel covering Action, Adventure, and Fantasy genres. not only the start, the plot made sense at the very late.